jack lew understands budgets. the fact of the matter is, this is a guy that can speak the right language when the biggest crisis in washington right now is the fact that there's an absence of a budget. >> okay. so, ali, that's a great point. when i heard you talk about this before it was the one thing that you said that i kind of disagreed with. look, we have a fiscal crisis on our hands, we have a debt crisis. if you look at his performance in the last few years in terms of running the budget office and being the chief of staff for the president, the debt crisis has gotten much worse. i don't look at that reference and say, gee, this is a guy who is really going to fix the problem and i do think what we need in washington is he's been in washington in and out of government for 25 years and i guess my philosophy is, why not bring in some new faces, granted they are going to have the president's philosophy but maybe looking at new approaches to bringing this enormous debt down. >> steve, do you remember his record